Emergency! Everyone, Please!

[KarenESP]

Prayers for Robin in a custody battle that boggles the mind. She has found herself against all odds and abused even by the Courts.

Prayers of Intercession... Meditations for Relief, what ever is your style, please send her love and healing for her family.

Sincerely, Karen

[Jeannie]

I am so sorry you have to go through this. I know how much you love your children. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Jeannie

[robinmom]

I just caught this now...((hugs)) thank u for thinking about me...it stunk...the judge was a (a) whole and didnt want to even listen tomy side.,..said some really cruel things to me that where totally uncalled for...and didnt bother reading what child welfair had to say about me wich was actually very good he didnt want to bother to even open it up and wouldnt even let my lawyer utter a word...so now i have to wait another 2 months to go back..and i dont know anymore..if he continues to refuse to listen i dont know when or if i will ever get her back..i feel like im dying inside:(

[Cygnusia]

I know you have switched judges before, hon, but it sounds like it's time to again. These people are supposed to give out justice through due process, not from what he's probably heard through whispers and hearsay.

See if you can find one that actually cares to hear both sides and can actually comprehend the proof of what's really going on instead of one that simply wants to get the cases out the door as quick as he can... :(

[robinmom]

staten island only has about 3 family court judges:( and i cant switch courts since it started in this court

[Cygnusia]

Isn't there a higher power than the courts that you can complain to? Sorry, I'm not that well versed on the legal system... :(

[robinmom]

in the pat 8 year if it there i have tried it,,,,my parentsa have money and know people wich puts me in a not great position:(

[Texana]

Robin,

This sounds so hard. I can't imagine such a thing but I know it happens all the time.. We can send healing energy to you for your situation. Remind us so we will have your children on our minds. We don't want this post to get shuffled aside.

Blessing to you and yours.
Charlotte

[robinmom]

Thanks charllette....as my sons when i came home saw me crying andmust have over heard me wich i didnt intend since he is only 3 and i didnt want to upset him over it plus didnt think e can quite grast it yet....what came outta his mouth suprised me though.(ashley is (my) sister they have no right!

I was shocked to say the least....i was also proud of that coming from him....and he was 100 percent right...i felt bad he had to put 2 and 2 together now...but i was proud as well...as he patted me on the head....

it hard every day./...i keep thinking everytime i go to court its something new the court asks me to do..so years past i i continue to fight...first they sore i needed psyc help....so even though i didnt think i need it found out it can help in many waysthough..i went for it..told me i need to live in one place for more then 2 years...wich kind of broke up my first marraige put to much stress on it between fighting for her and going back and forth then not being able to go..up to going and my parents running to court saying i abandoned her..when all i was doing was visiting my husband for one week..so the join was taken away....
so i did the psyc thing...and worked a long time ot get a high status where i worked.... i lived in a place for more then 2 years...ended up getting a divorse cause my marriage went to shreds over everything....so i ripped inside but i continued...

ok so i did these three things..things buit up to do more..i cant remember what but everything they asked i did...then it was that she was living there to long but hello that was because i was doing the stuff they asked cause i mean many people go without seeing a psyc many people go without living in one place for more then 2 years an dhappy family as lopng as they have each other..and many many other things...it was bs..till it was they had her to long...so now i have a loving husband living in one place for a long time 2 kids wich im raising that are happy healthy and curtious..as childwelfare saw and stated but he would look at it..so now it tell me why she should be with u..now i have to show him not that i have done everything and she can com ewith me i have to show him even though i have all these things and a good parent and have a good home and have done all they ask..why should ashley come to me. my asnwer...cause i have done eveything u asked..i been fighting for her for years shows my dedication....i have a normal family life....missing one peice though..(her)......and what mre do i have to prove that she should be with me..instead he would read anything or listen to me or my lawyer..yealled at me that this is rediculous..;and my daughter needs a stable life...meaning what im doing is wrong and this is insane already said that i cant just drop off my daughter nad play with her as if she a tinker toy...and leave when i wanted wich was so far from the truth..my mother kidnapped her and was facing 15 years in jail so they went andd got a good lawyer..and said cause itryed to commit suicide when i was 13..(cause noone would take me outta there house from the child abuse i had to indor and i fel tit was the only way out)...that i was unfit to raise her and had an unstable mind...i was shocked he said i was creating a unstable life cause IM FIGHTING FOR MY OWN DAUGHTER,..and that i drop her off and treat herlike a toys...I TRY TO GRAB ANY MINUTE I CAN WITH HER AND BEEN FIGHTING FOR HER AND DOING EVERYTHING THE COURT HAS ASKED OF ME....so now what...only thing i can say is i want her she my daughter an dio love her im been fighting for her cause she bleongs with me..and i have a home suitable in courts eyes..for her to come to ....i want her to grow up with her brothers...and me...andplain and simple it time to come home...and the only reason this has been going on for years is that it always been one thing after another..and now i have to prove why i must have her..wich not for nothing i have....after so many years with my parents....plus he said last time to increase and increase visitination..well my daugher had said 2 months back she hatesthem wants to come with me and was sick of them beatin gher up and them fighting in fron tof her...of course the ocurt didnt see this...so my parents had me not see her for 2 months,...and my mother words cuase she can do this..and the judge when i went to court didnt even bat an eye to that and just gave me a few hours on sat to see her and no more..so basicaly they took whatever i have had with her growing and gave me less...he wont even look at his own notes saying that..and my daughter n matter what i say now feel abandoned....

im at a cross ends..and do not see this happening..the chilkd welfair says i should gether there no reason why i should and if i dnt keep fighting the judge says this answer will be it it been ion court for 2 long and this child needs stability...wtf?

so what am i supposed to do..leave her..and he basically says i have no say in her life..wich is like i have no right..but i never signed my rights away and they where never taken...i told him i still have parental right and they have not adopted her.(over my dead body).....so why dont i have my parental right..oh another thing even my x hubby went for her and lost....i mean if u suppivly cant take care of a child it goes to the other parent but he wouldnt even consider it...i dont know anymore..all i know is im dead inside..i dont know if prays help..i have so many people praying for me me churches and temples...friends andmore...kind of makes me wonder what the higher power has to do in my life at times....i know the saying what doesnt kill u only makes u stronger but in this instance..fighting and being without her had weekend me..im not the person i was almost 8 years back..im tired have several aim ents that my doc chalk up to my body being tired from this in the first place..it been beaten down...and do not feelstonger just beaten down and wekaer.;..so i just dont know...:(

thank u for prayer though..i really thought they help this time..i guess iu was wrong and to boot he wont let me come back till almost 3 months from now...that kills me as before 2 months back i saw her almost every day and had her over night...2 hours every sat with my mom sittng on my lap...is killin gme....

ps i really wonder what i did so bad in a past life to continually keep going through:(..i mean i know there much worse in this world..but people say as long as u have ur family..but what if u dont:(

[Loramars]

Dear Robin,

Chin up! Don't you let these setbacks discourage you from pursuing custody of your daughter and knowing that she will be back in your life full time to stay.

I read your story. I had not heard the details before. The only thing you and I don't have in common is the daughter caught in the middle of a custody battle. (I never had any children...yet) I, too, attempted suicide (feeble attempt, but alarming all the same) when I was a teen ager. Fortunately, my dad had good health insurance and my mom wanted me to believe I was crazy. The result was that my mom took me to a psychiatrist for treatment. It was the beginning of my independence from her. I learned a lot about myself. Number one, I love life! I didn't try to kill myself because I wanted to die. I felt like you did, Robin, I just wanted away from my controlling, unstable mother who made it a point to tell me every day how I had no rights and couldn't survive on my own without her.

Your story is heart-wrenching. I know exactly how you feel having your mother take something precious away from you. It's as if she wants to tear your heart out on purpose. But! If you think like this, she keeps winning. You have to see her in a different light and know that she is only acting out of her current beliefs. She doesn't know any better. She's the one who deserves your pity.

I see a man in a suit with a beard and a mustache. He is smiling. I see the sun shining over his shoulder. He wants to take the case for you. There is a strong possibility to increase visitation, create bonding between you and the daughter, and move toward full custody in a shorter time than you anticipate. All hope is not lost!

Meanwhile, you have to pull yourself together. You have to realize, Robin, that your mom is using your "emotional instability" as a weapon against you. The more distraught you become, the more certain the outcome that your mom keeps your daughter.

This battle is an opportunity for you to get stronger emotionally, find your voice, and finally become independent of your mother once and for all. Don't let her continue to reduce you to a puddle of tears! You are giving your power away to a woman who, by your own admission in your story, doesn't deserve the right to raise your daughter.

Please realize that your daughter is in no immediate danger. How old is she today? She might be encountering unpleasantness with discipline and observing discord, but children are very resilent. They bounce back from adversity. I did! I learned how to deal with adults who were out of control. Your daughter will, too. It's important that you tell her how strong she is and that she can make the best of any situation. And how loved she is...you are not giving up on regaining custody so the two of you can be together. Have faith that what you are saying to her is true.

This is just a drama and everyone is playing out their role according to who they want to become. You are learning how to adapt emotionally. Your daughter is learning how to cope in a stressful situation. Your mom is probably still trying to feel powerful as a parent by adhering to her controlling ways.

Practice seeing an amicable outcome for everyone involved. Picture your daughter living in your home and all the feelings that evokes. Picture your mom happy to see you and your daughter together. See the judge signing custody over to you. Imagine every scenerio you can that makes your dream a reality. And, above all, let yourself FEEL love and forgiveness in your heart. Let go of the pain and the tears. This mindset is only attracting more defeat.

I'm rooting for you, Robin! I know you can make this reunion a reality. It is within your power to make it happen.

[Texana]

Please see if you can take advocates into court with you. Someone very stable to stand in the courtroom ( in the back or with you) to give you support.

We can continue to pray.

[robinmom]

texana i have tried that and lamores i have tried to think how u have just to have more taken from me...and my mom no just doing this to because she htinks she doing what she needs..she doing this to abuse me and i cant fight it..it been shown time and time again...how do u hold ur head up how do u i have tried i have tried to forgive and i have tried to feel sorry for herl..gotten me noplace......this point there is no forgiving and even if i tried again it gets me noplace but more hate...it not what she feels she is doing is right and its not that my daughter is safe over there mentally and physcially she not..a man in a grey suit old with a beard grey,...no they person they gave me is young and shaven....

i truley want to think how u telling me to but here is n o way too..all it gets me is more heart ache in the end...

[Texana]

Robin,

I , too , know what it's like to be beaten and abused by my mother and I know what your mother is doing....but she will get out on a limb and when she does, you need to be strong to take your rightful place when she falls down.....not through your doing, but her own.

Watch for the man Loramars sees, as he may be in your near future, or in your present , but you have not yet seen him. He may have seen you in court and may be looking into your case now....who knows.

On another forum, I mentioned that I wanted to reccommend a book to you. "David St. Clair's Lessons in instant ESP" It has an exercise in which you talk to the little man in your head...( the one that just said"What little man") He is the "idiot savant who runs the physical plant of your body and your automatic reactions. Tell him the reactions you have habitually used to deal with your mother are no longer benefiting you and they are being used to benefit her and harm your body which you need to fight with. Don't do again what hasn't worked before.

Tell him each day you need a strong new battle plan and a strong healthy body and psyche to see you through to reclamation of your daughter. Don't do again what hasn't worked before. Think of someone to be a role model for you. Did you see "Terminator and Terminator ?" Linda Hamilton makes a tremendous transformation to save her child.

If you are still seeing a psychologist, enlist her help and ask how to bring it about. If she or he is a competent counselor, she can give you good information. If they are not willing, you don't have time to waste on soft theories and lackof support.

My old instructor Dr. Wilfrid Hahn said"Confidence is everything" and he said "Just Do It" and "Fake it til you make it."

Please know that you have friends her. We are real flesh and blood people with body and soul. We can support and advise, but you can do the ultimate hard work here. We have faith in you. Angels are all around you waiting for you to ask their help.

[KarenESP]

Thank you Texana and Loramar...

For giving such wonderful advise and offering your support to Robin. I hope everyone will wish her good energy and keep her in their thoughts.

Sincerely, Karen

[Loramars]

The man in the suit, Robin, has brown hair and appears to be in his thirties.

This is a tough time for you. Desire to lift out of your upsets so you can see more clearly, and you will be in a different frame of mind soon.

We'll be waiting when you are ready to proceed in a new direction, because the old way isn't working.:)

[robinmom]

Thanks charllette and everyone else...u too expecially karen for taking the time for this as i know ur extremely busy....

My old instructor Dr. Wilfrid Hahn said"Confidence is everything" and he said "Just Do It" and "Fake it til you make it."

haha the funny thing is i tell myself all the time..and do the softly softly cath a monkey as well...but it get weary after some time expecially when uit doesnt work....

i do not know what else to try i mean this has been going on for eight years...everything i got told by people to do or check out everything i can grab to read and try and on the internet as well.plus the legal section in the library..i even carry around a big fat sectionon the laws of what this whoile thing is about..and circle what pertains to me and whats legal and whats not...it seems the judge needs a lesson in it again cause i have no seen him use them once....even when i have tried to show him...oh by the way wich i do not recomend showing the judge (what he is supposed to know already)....

ur thoughts are comforting....expecially here from some people that actually know what this feels like...i get that connection then..the rest of u that are trying dearly i appriciatet so much.

((hugs))
today or tomarrow i have to get all the papaers that have the transcips from all the times i been to the court...(gonna need a big fat bag for it)...my new lawyer wants it..as between life and moves i cant seem to fin it:(...but every time anyone has tried to help me and has had them it didnt work a pinch..so here i go on the same journy i already told this lawyer the notes dont matter as this judge doesnt want to even here about it ....but we will see

((hug)

[Loramars]

It's how you feel, Robin. You have to change the way you feel about all this. You have to teach yourself to feel like you've already won.

I don't think you've accomplished that feeling yet. All the creative visualization in the world is not going to help change the situation if you don't stop feeling upset, dry up your tears, and feel victorious.

If you want to understand, desire it. Eventually, you'll own it. :)

[Texana]

Please ask you psychologist to help you with this. Find a way to strap on some armour so you are not so vulnerable. Cry your eyes out in her office and leave the tears there. When you change, make sure your therapist changes too. Don't let her treat you like Poor Pitiful Pearl. (Did you ever have that doll?) Make sure she treats you as the capable person you are.

Write up a positive outcome screen play for yourself and play it over and over. Do NOt rehearse in your mind all the negative things that have gone before, that is the mold and mildew that rot away your life. Clear out the dead wood and replace it with new material. Stainless steel , granite, pure gold...something that will serve you well.

If you need to tell the new lawyer about the case, give him the facts, they are brutal enough without the negative emotions that come with them. Do not act weak and helpless now. Don't think about whether it is hard or easy...just do what it takes.You have done so much! Do not waste all the good you have done.

We'll pray for the judge's honesty, fairness, insights and clarity of vision. Don't count on it always being this same old judge. What if he gets a promotion and you have a warm, sincere attentive female judge who likes you because you remind her of her favorite niece who is as spunky as they come. Talk to that judge. Show her you are everything she thought you were.

Be prepared. Focus on the mission at hand. Present yourself well as a strong capable mother. Let others show their own bad side. You are all about the good side.

I'm not dissmissing all the good you have done, all the hard dedicated work for 8 long years. It is worth it and you are winning no matter how it looks. You have champions and angels around you. Put the energy you have into the positive outcome.

[Loramars]

But like I posted somewhere else...The feelings of inadequacy I battle from time to time stem from confronting my own limitations as a mortal. As much as I can do for myself to wade through emotional trials in life and come out of it a happier person, I am powerless to do it for others. They have to do the work themselves. I can suggest. I can influence. I just can't make it happen for them.

When you are struggling through a battlle like you are, Robin, it's like an alcoholic who has to hit their bottom before they turn things around and head in a better direction. The same attitude that created the problem cannot be the same attitude that resolves it. You have to change your mindset.

Letting go of the upset and feeling happy, despite the circumstances the way they exist now, does not mean you are letting go of your daughter. It does not mean she will slip away from you.

See, whatever you are feeling, you attract another experience that reminds you of that feeling. You are playing the role of victim right now and feeling defeated. You've got to focus on what is in your life and what is good. Keep that uppermost in your mind. Feel happy about it, and that feeling will expand. Then you'll attract an outcome that reminds you of that happy feeling.

This exercise cannot be any harder to master than the past 8 years of upset, right?

Chin up!

[robinmom]

oh the old man with the grey hair and the grey mustashe...is the nasty old judge that never will listen or look..as i said my parents know people and so forth...and he is a bit money prejiduce.l.nothing has changed him and from the look of it nothing will so having him on my side is very doubtful. doesnt look like he gonna get some opiffany(sp) that gonna change him in this lifetime...aboiut the judgr chance it wont happen there only 3 judges in family court here and one for diffeent reasons so unless he ups and dies there no chance of me gettig a nicer judge

oh i always said im gonna get her back im gonna get her back..it just now that i see my everything i have been working for hasnt made a **** of a difference....at all..this is why im feeling depressed now and very defeated:(

i know i sound like a pity me..but i really dont want pity im just hurt and stating it..the hugs help and prayers help too..not in the case, but in feeling a bit warmer then this chill i have inside...

[Texana]

You're just getting it out of your system and that's certainly understandable. It's a good thing to do.

[robinmom]

thanks for understanding
(hug)

[Texana]

I care about you.

[robinmom]

thanks...there quite a few of u and u know who u are that have been togethe ron this board for quiet some time that gotten to know eachother...i care about all of u as well

(hug)

thank u for sharing that with me

[Loramars]

And laughter uplifts it. The tide is changing, Robin. Nothing stays the same forever. :)

[AlisClan]

I can see how frustrating your position is. I myself am in the position of being a non custodian stepmom to two little girls that live in a bad enviorment (drugs, verbal abuse between biomom and her bf, abuse of the kids, ect..) So bad to the point to where my stepdaughters know our local children protective services on first name basis.

http://www.winchildcustody.com/mothers/

Here is a message board with tons of information! Ask away, there are plenty of people there willing to hand out advice and dont knock it. Its a place to go and have your voice heard and others that are dealing with the same bs you do.

My best advice is to document, document, did I say document. If your visits are court ordered and you are denied, document. Write everything down thats going on, and dont stop writing. (a denied visit is comptemt of court) LIght a fire under your lawyers *** in anyway you can, sometimes you got to remind them who they are working for. Play those local politics! Play them to the hilt. If your local CPS isnt doing their jobs find out what there procedures are and if you dont think they where followed then you get ahold of your State Liason Officer (sp?). Raise a stink! How olds your daughter, is she old enoungh to come into court and tell who she wants to live with, and will she say she would like to live with you? You can insist on a Garduim Ad LIthm (I know I screwed the sp on that one) for your daughter that is supposed to be looking out for her best interests, you can demand the child see a theripest. Demand your rights as a mother, dont let them push you out!

Sorry, ya hit a touchy subject with me.

Best of Luck!
ALice

[robinmom]

no actually everything u said was good, i like hearing from somone who is going though the same thing...not that i wantu going through it just that u can identify....i have tried what u said..and i document everything its just staten island is small ad my parents know people...so its hard..but im still chugging away at it.....i just had a 2 hour talk with my mom..i dont think it helped but it the first time shelistened and didnt hang up on me...usually she says i dont have to listen or ill talk to my lawayer...maybe i struck somehting i donthtnk it will last...i guess we will see

[AlisClan]

What about your other children? I mean does she see them also. Do you all still have some kind of family structure? Its just sad, I see this alot. Has she became so attached to your child that she just wont let go? Sometimes parents dont see that there own kids have grown up and are completely capable of taking care of their own kids. (my own father acts like that still, ya know not to let them eat battery acid? (a wild overstatement, but you get the point!) He cracks me up, but I let it go thur one ear and out the other.

Cry if you got to, but never let them see you do it. I find being the calm cool one, the voice of reason gets more attention then anything else. Just an FYI you arnt the only one, so not alone! My sdaughters know mom has scales and that she sales pot and they know she pinches off of everybag, the moms a total crackhead (hubby must have had something slipped into his drink when he hooked up with that one!) The mom braggs that shes had CPS called on her 10 times and she knows how to take care of it all (IE making sure the kids lie) CPS is a crock of pooh and blind as bats! Iv given them hell more then once! Well the situtation wasnt serious enoungh for you to remove them (biomoms bf jerked the 8 year old back by the hair of her head, shes 8 and small and hes in his 30s and about 270 some odd lbs!) So what Im hearing is the child isnt dead so you wont remove her, what about the next time he loses his temper, what about that time? What if he breaks her poor little neck?

I have been everywhere looking for answers for them, I have called everyone and emailed till my fingers fell off, I have fought and documented and pleaded with my sdaughters to tell the truth and Im up agianst a brick wall. Im really worried for thier safty! Im worried one of these days we are going to get that call about one of them and they are going to be hurt bad or worse... And nobody will step in and nobody will look closer thru the facade biomom puts up. All biomom is worried about is her stinking childsupport. She only recieves support for one because the oldest is actually not hubbys (longer story, paterinty fraud, she didnt get away with it) but we still take her for every weekend visits just the same and mums the word on paterinty. Im going to step off this soap box for now because its going to drive me down to why how and searching for a way out of this mess!

[robinmom]

my mom doesnt let go cause it hurts me..its not cause she is attached..i mean she went and kidnapped her and told the court i was a danger to my child cause i tried to commit sui8cide at the age of 13 wich was 10 years before that and only cause my mom was abusing me and noone would take me outa the house.even child servies charged her with this and didnt care they said that my daughter is a different child..i see my daughter court ordered every saturday if my mom feels like it....i was seeing her all the time a few months back and over night till she went home and told my mom she hates them...i dont tell my daughter much except that grandma is not allowed ot hit u its agaisnt the law.and if anyone asks to tell the truth..but when womeone came around she didnt tell..scared maybe..but childwefare is a crock i mean they have nothing on me and keeping her from me for 8 years..and souert still find some ways for her to continue to stay there...the new one is that she been there that long.but that not my doing that been the courts doing cause everytime i go back it somehting new i have to do to prove im fit..so i do it..the it put off till so and so..and hence she beenthere a long long tme..my dad even attacked me in front of the judge and in there home and brke my arm...but according to the judge non of this had happened.....
so i know what u mean..it heart renching and hard..polus she mine and it kills me that i know she going through what i went through and she gonna grow up feeling the same pain as i do now.....i didnt have her to go trhough this i had her cause i wanted her and i wasnt a teen or anything iwas married and had a good job....and 23.....

its hard...i know and i know i am not the only one that goes through it...the one thing i do hate though is people always telling me i know how u feel u know the ones who never been through it at all and to pull urself together..forgive....i rather here im here to tak to and im sorry....i hope things work out..but from someone who has been through it then i feel a c0nnection and theydo know what i have beengoing through..its liek a bond of pain..so to speek..that the best i can explain it to be...
thank u so much for sharing the story...hearing it makes my heart break but being able to share it with someone who knows helps alot(hug)

[AlisClan]

How old is your daughter? Im just wondering if shes been programmed to think she hates you. Its Called PAS (parental alianation syndrom) (some courts wont reconigize the term pas, so dont bring it up without talking to a lawyer first)

With luck and time, your daughter will wake up and realized what the deal is. I tell some, my saving grace is the fact that one day my sdauthers will grow up and hopefully they will see the truth and that we love them and only wanted what was right.

[robinmom]

she programed into thinking if she comes to me she gonna loose her life she has not not gain...but sheis 8 and she knows i love her ..i make **** sure of that...lol

[AlisClan]

OK Good age to work with, My youngest sdaughter is 8 and my oldest one just turned 10 today! They are as differant as day and night, the youngest one is an Angle and the oldest one, well lets just say shes very difficult to deal with! (the oldest is not hubbys, shes a case of paterinty fraud, dont know if Iv clarified it) She is still apart of the family, we dont harp on whos her real dad.

My youngest sdauther gets so confused and angry at times its not funny. She hates what goes on at her moms and what her mom does, but she loves her mom and she feels stuck and if she lets the truth out she will be seen as a "snitch, disloyal ect.." So I feel your in the same kinda shoes, your daughters loyatily is laying elsewhere and its hard to get past that. Even when my sdaughter says shes confused because Im the better mommy to her, but she loves her mommy she feels as if shes acting very disloyal. I try hard to make her comfortable with her feelings toward me. (Iv known her sense she was born, shes always been my cuddle butt!)

You daughter has more the likely been told horror stories about you, shes probley just starting to sort fact from fiction but at this age they are apt to belive anything and thats hard to deal with! Just stay firm with the truth with her, dont let her slide and dont let yourself slide. When dealing with these difficult situtations I find that consistanty is your major winning point.

Sense she does feel loyal to your parents, try to remeber not to bad mouth them infront of her, that makes them feel more loyal toward them, it gives these kids stuck in the middle a feeling that they have to protect the ones hurting THEM! (Im not sure of the paticulars, just giving you the run down of what I have learned so far) I also know we are all human and there are times your going to cuss the other party or vent a little infront of the kids, it happens, last weekend it happened here, she sent them here with the stomach virus and I about had a fit and said infront of them that the ***** needs to keep them when they are sick so they dont spread the funk. LOL. Go figure.

Did you follow the link I sent? You can get some **** good advice from there, watch out for some of the women, If you post Ill keep an eye out for you and make sure the few bad ones dont come starting trouble with you(grandparents that want custody, or have custody, there is also a grandparents board and several of them are known to start loads of trouble on the other boards)

I cant imange the fight your fighting, Im fighting for skids, but if it where my own biokids, man I dont know. It would tear me up to have them taken away from me, I just couldnt imange it........ Sending extra strengh your way!

[Loramars]

Your daughter grew up in your mother's custody from infancy on. Is that right, Robin? You said you've been fighting for custody for 8 years and that your daughter is only 8 right now?

Well, at least I understand why the judge suggested you give up the fight and let your daughter grow up feeling settled in one household. That's not the same as agreeing with him that your daughter should stay with grandma. I was just wondering what would cause him to be so hard on you and ask that Ashley have some stability at last. I thought maybe Ashley was 3-5 years older than she is. That maybe your mom kidnapped her while she was in grade school. I see the picture a little clearer now from both perspectives.

Wishing you all the best, legally and emotionally!

[Texana]

Speaking as a person who grew up in a violent household, I saw my sister, who was my father's child, beaten by my mother from the time I was an infant.

She had beautiful red hair and my mother would sit on her back screaming and yank it out by the handfuls. When my dad came home for lunch, my mother would tell him she tangled her own hair and pulled it on purpose. Her scalp ws always bleeding. She's 7 yrs older than I am, so as soon as i was old enough to calculate, I tried to figure out when she would start beating me.

I would sit at the table and hear Mom lie to my dad and be dumbfounded....not what I learned in Sunday school....I knew it was wrong ....I also KNEW I would be killed if I tried to do anything about it.

When I was about 4 she started in on me. I just wanted to be killed outright instead of beaten bloody a little every day. When I was 4 I tried to run out in front of a dump truck to end it all. That's when the "imaginary friends" came around the corner of the house and started playing with me each day. I think they were intervention angels.

The focus of my life became to survive until maturity so that I could escape. I totally understood all the wicked stepmother witches in the fairy stories in which they take someone's firstborn child. My sister was her Mom's firstborn. She ws a totaly nice person, but my dad was able to get custody right after the WWII because her mother had remarried and planned a trip to Germany to see his folks. (The times..you know)

When I was in school, teachers would question me about belt marks oozing blood and bruises, but I knew if I told anyone, and they were not able to get me out of that house, I would be killed. I knew without a doubt, I would be killed. This went on through high school. I know my dad knew...he looked the other way. They had their own area of control, Dad worked and brought home the money and mom took care of the kids, lots of drinking on the weekends.......by both.

Also in this mix, I was abused by my dad's boss from the time I was 2 until I was 6 or 7. Knowing I was going to be sexually abused if I stayed at his house with him and his battered wife, was preferable to being beaten at home by my mother. I grew up thinking adults were the enemy. I never "blocked it out' because I needed my wits about me every second of every day and night.

Just think about what that all teaches a child. Doctors would rip my clothes off as a small child and put their hands anywhere, nurses would jab you with a needle for Pete's sake. What's this all about?

My self esteem was zip. I married at 20 as my Dad said"The first boy that asked me" . Well, Duh!!! A bad marriage was heaven compared to the way I grew up.(My older sister married on her 18th birthday and she was not pregnant!) I couldn't even confide in nice ladies at church, or my mothers sane friends, or teachers....Think of a really scared cat...you'll get an idea.

The one thing I will say here. I did not confide in these people, or ask help of the ones who knew and saw because none of them had shown me they were strong enough to save me in one swoop, and avoid getting me killed. I decided it was best to just stay alive by any means possible until maturity. I figured I could sort out my life later.

[Loramars]

They know who to trust and not from experience along the way. It's nice when we can offer them our protection, but it's just as necessary for them to learn coping skills in less-than-ideal situations.

I'm so sorry, Charlotte, for the horrendous abuse you endured. I think my mom's verbal abuse was music compared to the physical abuse you described. I can relate to the hair incident, though. My mom tore through my hair with a brush, deliberately trying to hurt me, because she wanted my dad to agree to have my hair cut off. He loved my hair long, you see. I was his Princess. My mom hated me because my dad loved me. Those are the words she actually used to explain her hostility toward me when I was in kindergarten.

I survived. And I learned to recognize when someone is in trouble on a psychological level. I know when to offer assistance and when to pull away. Some problems require professional intervention. And some people never want to get well.

It's been a long and interesting journey. Life is much happier now, because I made sure of it.

[Texana]

Hey Loramars,

Actually, my psychologist and several others I have read in books state that verbal abuse , and spiritual abuse (killing the spirit of the child...beliefs, hope, self esteem) are much worse than physical abuse.

It's all bad, but I have rebuilt my life, and I built in some good things. And I'm still working on my feelings toward my 80 year old mother. (She wants me to go on a cruise with her! Trapped in a tiny cabin in the middle of the Ocean !!!!!!!!!!!!!Words cannot describe my terror!!!!) Oh, maybe I haven't rebuilt as much as I thought.....it's ok, Charlotte, your'e going to be ok......

Maybe I should be dealing with this relationship from 200 miles away.

I'm making these statements on this forum so that it can be seen what the thinking of the child is. I think of myself as a well adjusted person, as does my psychologist. She said I was taking charge of my own life and doing just fine many years ago.

Protecting and nurturing a child in this position is a very very difficult task and I admire all of you who are doing for your children what I had wished for myself.

God Bless you Robin and Alis

[Loramars]

Charlotte,

Our lives parallel each other in so many ways! I laughed my head off when I read about the invitation to take a cruise with your mother. OMG! Yeah, I'm sure it's your dream to have her for your shipmate. Not!

During the year before my mom passed, she asked me some peculiar questions and extended invitations that made me scratch my head in disbelief. I would say, "Was she out of her mind?" if it weren't for the fact that I already know she was leaking like a rusty bucket. Lol.

She asked me, "Did you ever think of moving to Florida?" Why? to be closer to the abuse? At least I could hang up the phone when things got out of hand. When I visited her, and she had me trapped in her house, she let me have it with both barrels! There was no way I was taking that kind of treatment ever again. The wonderful thing about being an adult and having my independence is that I could pick and choose when to have contact with my mother. She had to be at her best behavior, too, because she knew from the 3 years I stayed away that I wasn't having any more of her nonsense. I spelled it out for her one day. I said, "Listen, I don't need a mommy anymore. So, if you and I can't be kind to each other, there is no point in having any more contact. I don't want to make you feel bad. And I am not going to let you make me feel bad." After that conversation, she really watched her P's and Q's.

She actually said she wanted us to go on a cruise together, too! Good thing we were on the phone at the time, because I think it would have hurt her feelings to see my facial expression. I nearly choked on my beverage! Lol. Diplomatically, I told her I had already used up all my vacation time.

I'll give you an example of an interaction between me and my mom that took a crazy turn (one of many!). The last time I visited her in Florida, she was still trying to decide if she'd take chemo for her lung cancer. The radiation had worked to put the cancer in her left lung into remission two years prior. Now there was a new tumor in her right lung and it was too large for the few radiation treatments she could have. She was not a candidate for surgery, so chemo was her only option left. I brought her a book that warmed my heart called, Love, Medicine, and Miracles by Bernie Seagle. He was an Oncologist who shaved his head to honor his patience who lose their hair during chemo. It was composed of many stories of triumph.

She didn't say anything about the book. Something was bothering her about it, because she suddenly started finding fault with me over everything I did (like old times!). She became so enraged, in fact, that her husband left the room in a huff to drink his beer (it was before 10 am) outside. Meanwhile, she chastized me for eating a cantaloupe out of the shell and not scooping all the fruit out up to the rind. I pointed out my age and the fact that I paid for the fruit myself. Can't I choose how I'll eat it? Apparently not, because while I was taking a shower, she cubed up the other half of my cantaloupe in the fridge and put it in a tupperware dish for me.

While I was blow-drying my hair and had the bathroom door open, she shouted at me to turn the fan on because the moisture was wafting into the living room. I walked through the living room and she yelled at me about that. "We walk around the couch," she pointed out.

I complied with all her demands. Still, she wasn't happy. I could feel us getting back to the old role playing. She was going to beat me up verbally and reduce me to a puddle of tears. I resisted.

"Okay, mom," I said, playing psychologist, "I know something else is bothering you. Why don't you just tell me what it is?"

She blasted me about the book! "You think I'm stupid, don't you? You think they don't teach about holistic medicine at the Cancer Treatment Center of America? They do! I already know all this stuff, but you want to rub it in my face with this book!"

Very well then. We were ready to run our errands. In the car, though, her vengeance picked up momentum. She hadn't reduced me to a puddle of tears so, quite naturally, she wasn't finished with me. The last straw was when she said something to me I hadn't heard her say since I was a child and gullible. I was, in fact, surprised at her for using this tactic. It was a pivotal point in our relationship and the moment during which I realized that my mom really was crazy. She said, "You need psychiatric help. There has always been something wrong with you!"

My heart started racing. I could feel the fight-or-flight feeling taking over, like the steel trap door of my mind's unstable mind was about to slam shut with me trapped inside with her! My only thoughts then were to escape.

She went grocerie shopping while I asked for a yellow pages at the courtesy desk. I called a motel by the airport and made a reservation. I called a taxi cab company and asked them to stand by...as soon as we return home, I need a ride to the airport. I had 3 days left before my return flight home. I wasn't spending another moment in the same house with my mother.

We got in the car to leave and I asked about the names of roads to her house. She knew I had called a cab. She was not supposed to drink alcohol but was itching to get loaded. She said, "I might as well just stop at the VFW for a few drinks and leave you sitting in the car."

"Fine," I said. "I'll walk to your house."

"Oh, no! Nobody goes into MY house without me being there!"

That's when I got very calm and I looked her in the eyes. I reminded her of my age and said, "You can't hold me prisoner, Mom. It's against the law."

I guess she thought better of it. She drove us both home. Inside, I made a beeline for the bedroom and packed all my belongings in a hurry. I set the suitcase outside the door. I asked her permission to call the taxi company. She granted it, and then she walked into her bedroom. After I placed the call, I just wanted to leave to escape that horrible feeling I had as a kid. But I really wasn't angry with my mom. I didn't want to end this visit on a sour note. I stood in the living room and called to her. She came out.

"I'm leaving. Aren't you going to give me a hug?" I asked with my arm open. She did embrace me back, and she asked me to wait in the house for the cab. I just couldn't. I opted to wait by the curb away from her house down the street. I needed to be away from her and all her disturbing thoughts that broke my heart.

Three days later, when I arrived home, I phoned her to say I was home safely. We had a nice chat just like nothing ever happened.

Fortunately, that last visit to Florida was not the last time I saw my mother. I did meet her in Chicago for a weekend during her monthly chemo treatments. During that weekend, we talked and held hands, and she bought me a teddy bear and made me name him. It was a tradition I started as a kid. I used to give my mom stuffed animals for her birthday. They reminded her of me. Now I have "Chili" to remind me of her. Even though she couldn't express much warmth to me, I know she often felt it.

I justed wanted you to know, Charlotte, that I know firsthand how painful it is not to be able to connect with your mom on a level of mutual warmth and acknowledgment. I never had it with my mom either. Every moment we shared was tainted by the pain she carried around in her psyche.

We really owe it to ourselves and our loved ones to cure what's ailing us. Until we do, it interferes with intimacy.

[robinmom]

thanks girls...yea my bleadin bruises where covered up and ignored my hair was pulled when brushed till it fell in lumps..and she cut it like a boy...i was told i was stupid and never wanted although i was planned...my dad although he loved me walked into a room and read the paper and all he would say is to my mom in a low voce was to stop..wich of course she didnt...i started resenting him for this..he also grew to hit me times cause he couldnt take the strss my mom was doing..so instead of making it right he made it worse by this and ignoreing ashe does now the abus she still inflicts...sitting in a room with my mom now still makes my stomach churn...so i know how that feels...expecially that she has the one thing that makes me not be able to get far away from her and her abuse..my daughter and all from lies she told the court and continues...i was born 3 months early and sick untill 2 wich of course was my fault as well cause i wanted to torture my mom and got tortured back for it all the way till now..even now i get blamed for it and mentally and verbally...i do not however talk bad about my parents to my daughter or tell her how i feel...i do however listen to my daughter...alsmost exact stories she goes through and tell her to be strong..that hopefully one day this will all be better...
the reason my mom took my daughter in th first place is she saw i was moving out and on in my life far from the way she can make the abuse on me..and to keepo me to abuse me was taking her ..was the only way tocontinue to do so...now my poor angel been going through it as well.and of course between the them not being able to find it or look at it..the court and the people my parents know....i cant do a thing about it....wich kills me more...
my life has been a struggle to servive and if it wasnt for my daughter i wouuld be dead as it torture to servive this all this time..almost 32 years.....but i have to get her out of this situation..im tired inside and worn down...my insides feel empty..and i feel also likei donot deserve anything or anyone good in mylife wich my mom loves to show me and tell me as well....why the courts dont see this..even with at least one abuse charge on her when i was younger...alliget told is my daughter is a different child........(wtf) abuseis abuse cant they see this...no they cant and never do.....they see 14 year old crack mom and try to get them better and give them back there kids but have yet to find anything really on me but that im unstable cause i tried to commit suicide when i was 13 cause noone would take me out of my torturous house...
i am raising 2 boys just fine...and the courst dont care im still unfit to raise my daughter..as my parents say in court and cant be trusted..ui tell the judge if the court feels im good mom to my 2 others how can i be any threat and a bad mom to her...i have no abuse charges on me and my children are healthy happy and thriving....i have told the judge this but he says it doesnt matter..so the abuse continues for me and her..and it in circles..i hate this....my son crying for his sister cause he misses her and all i can say is one day dont worry and sheloves u very much..the horror stories i hear from my daugher and all i can say is be strong i love u and im trying to fix this,..i try and tell her to please tell the truth i f someone asks her whats going on..but as i sad my parents tell her she will loose her friends and everthing she has if she comes to me...that crushes her...one day my daughter called me up in tears asking why i abandoined her and didnt i love her and why did i just leave her..i startd crying then..and said what i could..i never left her or wanted toleave her...never did i want her out fomy life orliving someplace else...all i wanted was her and all i can say is that imtrying to fix this..knowing my mom must have told her that i didnt want her and just up and left her..my daughter must have asked her why she doesnt live with me...

anyway im rambling on..but girls i know how u feel on this..and it is hard..we try and forgive...but it hard as when u start something else happens or u remember something so painful...my thing that maybe it isnt to forgive or forget but its to learn,..i learned how not to be a bad mom and do that to my kids...that its wrong and to make sure i give a better life although i dont have the money they have..i more secure lift to them then i ever felt i had....just wish i can give it to her..andi wish i can just up and leave this abusive life..my mom continues to hold on me...if it wasnt for my daughter i be far far away and happy...

((hugs to u all);.and iknow how hard this is...i wish i can wipe everyone including mine memories clean...and we could just all start over with happy thoughts..and a bran new look on how life was always supposed to be

[Texana]

Your mom's reaction ...saying you needed psychiatric help.....something has always been wrong.....That's what she felt about herself.....She couldn't beat herself up so she did to you what she thought she deserved.

Thank you Robin for helping me and Loramars reclaim more of ourselves. You daughter is always in my prayers.

[Loramars]

What's ironic is that my mom did project all her shortcomings and feelings about herself onto me as if they were mine. Being a gullible child, I accepted them at face value and allowed it to cause me to feel unworthy. Because my needs were waived off as insignificant by comparison to my mom's troubles, I also felt invisible to others. I became the quiet one in class who never raised my hand to ask a question. I doodled and day dreamed. I locked my self in my room and drew pictures and read lots of books.

My mom sent me to psychologists because she insisted something was wrong with me. The therapy she made sure I got backfired on her, because I learned during those sessions all about what were healthy and unhealthy ways to interact. It started me on a rewarding journey of self discovery. I learned how to express myself in words so others could understand me, if they wanted to. I also learned what my mom was doing to me and why. See, the doctor explained that my mother couldn't handle her own feelings. That's why she drank and looked for sympathy from everyone. Naturally, then, she couldn't deal with my feelings. Her behavior toward me is commonly known as "denying my emotional experience." If I approached my mom in an asseritive manner and said, "What you said hurt my feelings," it would send her into a tirrade!

She became indignant and made me invisible again. "You can't possibly feel that way!" Was one of her favorite phrases. "I give you everything! You are just selfish and ungrateful!"

She was so forceful about it (I know now that is indicative of how sure she was she couldn't handle knowing how I really felt) that I began to believe her. Maybe I was ungrateful. Maybe I should stop thinking of myself. I was just a kid, but maybe I should be an invisible kid and have no feelings, so I won't burden mom.

I grew up second guessing my own feelings, which is not a healthy thing to do. I didn't know which way was up and I made a lot of choices along the way that seemed right at the time but did not bring me the happiness I needed. Sound familiar? I know now it was because I was so good at talking myself out of what I wanted and going instead with choices my mom would have chosen for me.

I've trained myself differently since, and I'm much happier with all my choices now. As a rule of thumb, never take advice from someone worse off than you! Lol. If they are not getting the result you want for yourself, don't take their advice to heart. (Make note of how they got where they are though, so you can avoid the same pitfall!)

Robin, I've read everything you posted here about your plight with your mother, and the hardships with the courts. I'm convinced that your mom and your daughter are doing some role playing to benefit both of them, in the long run. That's why it's been eight years and you are unable to intervene. The fact that you are not giving up on your daughter will tell her that you love her dearly and are not letting go. Actions do speak louder than words.

Teach Ashley some coping skills. Let her confide in you what the grandmother is saying, and teach her how to maneuver around it. Be her coach. You are removed from the situation, but you are still involved enough to do everything differently with your mom than you did before. If you could give Ashley any advice on how to get along better with your mom, what would it be? Remember that honey catches more bees than vinegar! The objective here is to assist your daughter in coming out of that household unscathed by the potential abuse she is confronted with on a daily basis. Pretend, if you have to, that both you and your daughter are in a prison camp together. Think of ways to make the stay easier for both of you.

i feel also likei donot deserve anything or anyone good in mylife wich my mom loves to show me and tell me as well This is your mom's point of view. You still believe her because some low self esteem stays with you. Time to change your standards of measurement for your self worth, Robin. Remember that you have more people in your life you love you and need your love than just Ashley. Be there for them. We tend to pass on our feelings of unworthiness to our loved ones. Do you want your boys growing up thinking they are not worthy because their love wasn't enough to make their mom happy?

Like Texana pointed out to me, it's called projection. When another person like your mom says things to you that she really feels about herself. She's not looking inside herself. She's seeing everything as qualities in you, which don't exist in you.

Don't believe it. Have a pep talk with yourself. You are not a failure because you attempted suicide at 13. You are not a loser because the judge is acting on your mom's behalf in keeping Ashley with her instead of you. You are not unworthy of good things because Ashley is now questioning your love for her. She's too young to understand. In fact, when situations like this drag on for years, it's because the players (you, your mom, and Ashley) are still gaining some understanding about yourselves from this drama the way it is currently playing itself out.

If it's any consolation, there are signs that tell me that Ashley will be coming to live with you one day. One of them is the fact that you still feel compelled to pursue custody. You are not giving up. This desire would leave you if it was hopeless. If there was no desire in Ashley or, yes, even inside your mom (deep down) that you be reunited with your daughter, your desire would fizzle out to.

Patience requires faith that all is well. Take your focus off the abuse you suffered at your mom's hands. She has a new opportunity to be less abusive with Ashley. Who knows? Maybe this is her second chance to make things right for her in the role of mother. And it's your chance to keep your daughter out of harm's way by teaching her how to smooth over the rough spots with your mom. Do what you can until the tide turns in your favor.

[Texana]

Robin,

You can give Ashley some beautiful shining armour mirror bright reflecting the light in it's beauty.

One thing that was very very healing to me was, as an adult, my grandmother and my aunt said they saw what was going on when I was a child and were not able to do anything without making it worse.

I only wished I had heard that as a child..it would have given me more resolve and comfort that I was not having to figure all this out myself. Is there someone Ashley respects who could tell her that you are doing everything you can? CPS? An Aunt or Uncle? Her attorney, her therapist?

I worked with several dozen teen parents who were a different race from mine. We had fun meetings and classes, and retreats, but we told them that there was nothing we could do to unravel their tangled and miserable circumstances. (Rapes by mom's boyfriend, stepdad showing porno to their 3-4 yr old son, sleeping in cars in front of mom's crackhouse) We really wanted to, but it was beyond anything we could do. Their spokesgirl said "That's alright Miss, we know you know...and when things get bad...we know there's ladies "out there" that cares about us...no matter what happens."

Find several ways to let Ashley know someone "out there" cares.

[Loramars]

A little anecdote:

A man was enjoying a day on the beach. He was a lifeguard off duty. Suddenly, he hears a call for help and sees someone in the water near a rock jutting out from shore. Instinctively, he swims out to bring them back to shore safely.

Another cry! He paddles back out and brings them back.

Another cry! He's getting exhausted, but he keeps rescuing the people in the water.

Where are these people coming from? He wonders. Someone comes along and tells him they are going into the water on the other side of the rock.

He was so busy dealing with the crisis, saving everyone, that he didn't bother to see who was throwing them in on the other side!

Often we are so preoccupied dealing with the effect that we never go deeper to discover the cause. But there always is one!

Everything happens for a purpose and we created it to be that way because there is something we are getting out of it.

I know in retrospect now, Charlotte, you are wishing these people would have told you they knew what was going on in your home, but had you known then it would have altered the outcome---you here safe and sound sharing with us today. Nobody can interfere with your reality. Nobody. It was not meant for anyone to intervene. Your relationship with your mom, my relationship with my mom, and Robin's relationship with her mom were all pre-determined before we were born. The stage was set and our interactions brought us to where we are in our lives today.

My mom once said that the reason she liked drinking so much was because her fondest memories of her father was him taking her to the bar with him and feeding her beer. She was 8. Otherwise, he was abusive. Maybe if she'd been nicer to me---given the symbiotic kind of bond we had---I would have favored the booze, too, and wound up with cirrhosis of the liver like my brother? I'll never know. Her behavior was so very distasteful to me that not only do I not drink a drop of alcohol, but I make it a point to spread a little happiness for everyone everywhere I go.;)

It's not what happens to you that matters. It's who you become because of it.

Which isn't half bad, if you ask me. You are all inspirational!

[robinmom]

been there trid the smoothing out..did u ever hear that some peopleu just cant change..and yes i am tryingto get ashely through this and how to handle it so she ducks harms way a bit better then me as i know exactly what my mom is doing and thinking...its not working as well..but im doingmy best...lamores somepeople u just cant chance and some expericnes wont smooth out or go away..some u cand grow from..but can try and make it better for ur kids...wich i am doing..but thereis no forgiving or forgetting as she makes sure of that...but thereis a i know what i will not do with my children..and belive me it not what she did to me...

in all her horrible abuse that still continus till this day...th one thing i have learned from her..is how not to treat people...i dont thank her for this as the way i had to learn it,..,but i am glad i do have it in me to treat people 100 percent different then she has shown me how to treat loved ones

texana ur welcome

(hugs)

[Texana]

Thank you for all the posts...they help now....and heal the past.

[Texana]

Your posts here are significant. Something good is coming your way, but you need to be really ready! Dress well, have your documents in order, get strong in your deepest being. It's exciting and good. Things happen in mysterious ways.

Light is being reflected on, shone on ...is coming to light....is enlightened...

Get ready to recieve...put on your catcher's mit...it's a hard fast one...

Do not get caught unaware or let it knock you down...be prepared....

[KarenESP]

Thank you all for your advise and thoughts of goodwill for Robin.
Sincerely, Karen

[robinmom]

im thanking everyone.,..although it may seem like im really touchy on the subject..( i am) i appricaite all the wel thought that come my way..all the way to my heart