For the sake of our children... (Warning, Soapbox)

[KarenESP]

Last night I saw, on Court TV, another example of how winning and being right does absolutely nothing to protect our children.

A young man of 20 (Wilson) picked a random victim, a little boy; Wilson waited until the little boy went to use the bathroom at a park, and slashed his throat. His mother was just outside, waiting for her child.

During Wilson's confession and related interview, Wilson said that he was told he should kill his mother. Wilson further explained, if he had killed his mother as directed (by his compulsion, voices in his head, etc), the world would have ended in 2000. Because he had not killed his mother, we would all live on and suffer for another 1000 years.

This is clearly delusional thinking, the young man was sick, clearly suffering from an illness of the mind. Any psychiatrist or anyone who has ever suffered psychosis or delusional thinking can clearly and immediately recognize this as just that - delusional thinking, psychosis.

As usual, the Prosecution's goal was proving Wilson sane and asking for the death penalty. The Prosecution won on proving Wilson sane, don't know what happened after that, stopped watching (he probably got life... when they are obviously mentally ill, the jury usually stops short of the death penalty, but not always).

You know, in Court, we have two opposing attorneys who both want to win, thier careers are on the line. The Prosecution always wants the death penalty for what they believe is Justice, even when someone clearly displays serious mentally illness - through thier confessions, thier motives and their behavior. The Prosecution hires the same old psychiatrists that they know will find the subject sane and the defense hires those that will find the subject insane.

It is insane to kill another human being, period. Why is this important? We have trouble making the connection because we are angry and appalled - we are afraid and we want this kind of thing to stop. Our very motivation for finding a mentally ill person criminally guilty, is the very thing that allows this to continue in our society.

The only answer to the prevention of the NEXT CHILD's demise.. is to find out what's going on in these people's heads... and to do the necessary research to solve whatever brain disorder these individuals (who exhibit the behavioral symptom of randomly taking someone's life) have.. so that others may eventually be screened for the same disorder and tragedy PREVENTED.

It is more important to prevent the murder of the next child than it is to be right and send a mentally ill person to prison or sentence them to death.

Concerning the death penalty for capital crimes, it is incorrect to say 'two wrongs don't make a right..." It is much more correct to say 'two wrongs don't solve anything and result in thousands of future needless deaths of innocent children.'

When will we wake up and see that our children are worth it? Of course I can't blame the blind, I wouldn't understand delusion if I hadn't personally experienced it... how it can warp the good guys and the bad guys, until you have no clue which is which... (And, I don't have a doctorate in psychiatry, either.)

But here's an interesting thought... When the police interviewed this young man, after his confession, they let him talk and talk.. spilling out all kinds of delusional, psychotic and bizarre-o theories. Why?? Wilson already told them he did it, why let him ramble on and on and on.. his insanity?

This was done for learning purposes, to help the police learn and understand the behavior of random murderers.. in the future, to catch them. If the police can get an idea of how ill people think, they have a better chance of tracking down the next insane person who goes on a killing spree.

So, the police use the benefits of delusional confessions, in the end, to CATCH the next delusional offender... but we fail as a society to understand that we should make use of delusional offenders in order to PREVENT the next tragedy. We need research, not life in prison or the death penalty, to protect our precious children. Why can't we see that?

Sincerely, KarenESP

[KarenESP]

"The only good is knowledge, the only evil ignorance."

[Texana]

I have a friend who is an assistant US attorney. She gets into lawyer mode on this subject, but she has been a friend of mine and a friend of my children's since they were little. She says she is so happy to have me as a non attorney friend.

So when my son in a psychotic episode was arrested for running down the street with a sword....she felt deep pain at his pain, my pain. A week earlier a boy from our town was shot and killed in the town where my son was arrested in a similar circumstance. My son is white and was arrested...that boy was black...

Laws need to change and there is a way. Every person you ever see knows someone with delusion...that's what the odds are. One person in 100 has schizophrenia, so everyone knows someone or will know someone they care about affected by this. Talk about it. Discuss high profile court cases. Ask you friends what they would do if their friend became delusional in a dangerous manner. What would they expect the courts to do?

My friend is learning so much from my experience. I'm learning a lot about the law and it's limitations.

[robinmom]

we all know what i think of lawyers...im not touching this one but what u explained karen that really insain that guy needed help

[KarenESP]

for your enlightened thoughts!

Texana.. Im so glad nothing happened to your son!

One in one hundred have schizophrenia.. ??? That many?? I heard there were 7 million Americans, at any point in time, with ignited Bipolar disorder...

One of the problems we have is this... no one thinks it will happen to them, violent crime... why worry about it, why not just keep sticking with the same old non-working program.. locking them up and warehousing them away...?

If the crime rate became so high that one in five persons were murdered by violent random crime (God Forbid!).. then everyone would think differently.. then we would all know someone in our family will be murdered and someone in our family might even be the murderer! Then the cry would ring out.. what's going on, how can we stop this?? A scream for research, screening and prevention would be heard from the masses.

I worked with a Romanian professor back in 2001 on a paper for screening highschool students with Bipolar disorder (which can sometimes go hand in hand with 'combat disorder') and schizophrenia by using already available iris scan technology. This was to identify those kids who might be experiencing the first stages of those disorders and to get them help immediately.

The reason this idea came to me and why it was so important.. is not that I was so much afraid my child might be shot by a school shooter, but even worse, what if he was the school shooter?? My shrink says this isn't a good thing to talk about because the stigmatism of mental illness... But, I'd rather prevent tragedy than worry about stigmatism.. especially when there are so many.

The only thing I would question, Texana.. is if everyone really has a delusional person in their family... I mean real true delusion, psychotic, voices vision, the works. Many can be borderline, never achieve thier potential and be considered eccentric.. but truly delusional, I don't know.

I think that those who sit on jury's and try persons suspected of mental illness should have to experience delusion before they judge. Put them in a controlled environment and medically initiate delusional thinking in them, psychosis.. then let them knock around a day or two in that state and find out how confused, disoriented they become, let them experience the extreme feeling of being in a battle between good and evil with the players twisted.. then bring them out, then let them judge.

Otherwise, how can 'psychologically normal people' ever make a decision as to whether someone is delusional or not, or whether their actions could be viewed as insane or sane? How the hell would they know??? This is why criminal offenders with mental issues are always denied a jury of their peers... so let those who want to judge experience psychotic delusion for two or three days, THEN they'll be qualified.

The tragedy of murder is two fold.. the victims' family looses and so does the offenders' family. It is within our means and should be within our will to protect all.

Thank you both for your responses...Sincerely, Karen

[Loramars]

It is insane to kill another human being, period. Karen, I'm right there with you against Capitol Punishment. It's barbaric and plays right into the same problem we are trying to eliminate.

An eye for an eye is about revenge. Revenge is not a resolution. It only keeps the murders going.

We all need to wake up and take heed.

This may sound unbelievable to some people reading my post, but I cried when they executed Ted Bundy. I think we would have learned so much more by keeping him confined and studied his psyche. He was willing, too, to talk and let people get to know him. He wanted to understand himself. We just killed him off like yesterday's garbage. He was a lonely, lonely man----like Dahmer who couldn't feel close to someone who was alive. It is a sickness. We need to get to the bottom of the thought processes that create these illnesses. Our understanding of the human psyche is still back in the dark ages!

Texana once said to me, "It's hard to know what to think" in relation to having a mental disorder like schizophrenia and wanting to be free of its clutches. I know what she means. Where do we begin? On what level can we access the mind of a schizophrenic and lead him out of the cobwebs of his mind?

It's time we all stopped condemning and killing, and we start learning instead!

[robinmom]

u know there was a great mathimatical nobel prise winner that had schizophrenia, he didnt get put in hospital for long andmostly fought it off by not responding to what was unreal..first he would find out what was real and unreal and go from there..he played later on inlife with some meds with no availe he himself kept it in check...he still had it but as he said like any addiction u have to putit aside and ignore it it doesnt go away...but..ok i forgot the rest....i was in aw of thisman..and how he stived up in is life and became what he became;.he still teaches as well in cambridge a very well known school or did last i read...

he amazes me..shows me alot fo time we can overcome just about anything...i keep trying to figure out where he got the strength...wish i can grab some ..lol

anyway i dont belive in death penalty number one to learn about that sickmind and try to help other with similar problems so they dont end up inthe same things..andother minds who are not sick and just do...i dontthink they should get away with it..i think death is a wonderous thing....andit a prize they need to work for it...killing other for whatever reason is no prize they should be just handed..they need to work for it..ok best i can explain...kwim

[Loramars]

Kurt Russell did a fantastic job portraying this man in the movie called A Beautiful Mind. Not only is his story proof that we can heal our minds with our free will, but it's a story about triumph of the human spirit.

I think there is a direct correlation between mental disorders and genius. My mom was a diagnosed schizophrenic. There isn't anything she couldn't learn! She was an expert on certain subjects. But she self-medicated with alcohol and this threw off her brain chemistry and made her depressed. I didn't understand at the time, but she used to tell me that she drank to subdue feelings that overwhelmed her. Like joy. She said when she felt joy, it was so moving that she couldn't take it. I think I understand now that she had this heightened awareness, this ability to accept an overabundance of thoughts into her brain at once and she never learned how to harness that energy.

[robinmom]

didnt see that movie..i read about the guy...

i dont think he got well...but did learn what was real and what wasnt and if he didnt know he simply asked then blew it off even though he saw it he didnt give it attention...he was amazing

[KarenESP]

The mathmetician's name is John Nash... he was played by the Australian guy....Russel Crowe... just 'happen' to have a copy of the movie myself, heh heh. John Nash had a late life remission from the disease.

Very interesting point... functioning and even occassionally functioning schizophrenic persons have brought an awful lot to our society. (Plenty of bipolars in this role, too, artists, poets, actors).

Even more interesting... the very first school shooter in America, years ago, was schizophrenic... instead of throwing him in prison for his life, he was sent to a mental hospital. After a few years, he was released and went on to earn a masters in mathmetics... since then he has held a good job and earned a very nice living for his family.

Now, someone like him would never get that chance.. now they want to charge school shooting teens as adults and lock them away and throw away the key. What we really need is screening techniques, in school, to prevent these tragedies to begin with.

As far as Ted Bundy goes, no, I didn't cry.. I didn't even pay attention or concern myself with the death penalty... I was an unenlightened person who never imagined such issues would ever apply to me.

Imagine how much more we'd know now if we'd kept him alive for the purposes of research.. It's as if we throw away an encyclopedia before we open it up and read it.

Thank you for all of your responses, Im glad Im not completely alone. Sincerely, Karen

[Loramars]

Do you think it's possible that bipolar disorder is what people have mistaken for an "artistic temperament?"

I was thinking about Jack Pollack, the impressionist painter whose behavior became so irratic. He finally crashed his car and died. Sad story. He was out of control.

[Texana]

And what about Vincent Van Gogh cutting off his ear and his brother Theodore taking care of him his whole adult life.....It was so hard on Theo....and he felt such terrible guilt when Vince died young.

[KarenESP]

Doctor Kay Jaimeson is a leading researcher of BP disorder for John Hopkins University.. she also has lived with the disorder for years herself... I believe she takes Lithium to control hers.

She has written seven books, one of them "Touched By Fire," which goes through many artists, poets, and other artistic types that suffered from BP disorder... Van Gogh was definately listed.. as was another famous painter (name??) who jumped off a bridge, suicide attempt, but survived to complete his greatest work ever.

She even has a chart, not only of the celebrity BP artist, but of members of thier family before them thought to have the disorder.

Emily Dickenson, VG, gosh, I can't remember.. some were famous painters I'd never heard of .. but more sophisticated types probably have. Writers too..

Today, the following actors have been identified, Robin Williams, Wynona Ryder... oh gosh, I can't remember, Im sure Nick Nolte is too.

You know, the leader of the greatest school shooting, all names and places are alluding me right now, in Colorado... he was on an antidepressent similar to prozac at the time of the tragedy.

When someone with BP disorder is placed on an antidepressent without the benefit of a mood stabilizer, there is a very great risk of medication induced psychosis.. which many doctors believe is what happened in that case.

You see, if regular depression is confused with manic depression (another name for BP disorder), the doctor may give antidepressents and literally initiate psychotic behavior in a person. Lately I've noticed, from people I know, that the doc's seem to be taking no chances; they are giving everyone mood stabilizers along w/antidepressents across the board, these days.

So anyway... most artistic types are at a minimum, Bipolar personality, which means they have the tendencies, but may not need medication.. or may be able to get by with medicating themselves with drugs and alcohol... until it's too late.. like Janis Joplin, Jimmy Hendrics and Jim Morrison. (The guy from Nervana, too - same deal.)

Sincerely, Karen

[Loramars]

(The guy from Nervana, too - same deal.) Curt Cobain. I know his story well. He was in constant pain in his stomach that was never diagnosed properly. He self medicated with heroine.

My own brother had a couple of psychotic breaks before while using antidepressants. Then he was finally diagnosed with bipolar disorder and given a mood stabilizer. I don't know why he's still drinking instead.

One of my best friends said she is manic depressive. I didn't know that's the same as BP! I won't hear from her for months. When I do she'll say she was too depressed.

It's horrible thing to go through. I can't even imagine. The few times I was depressed there was a definite cause. When I made a decision to change the situation, the depression went away. My bouts with depression were always because I was unhappy around the people I was with. Once I got away from them, I was a happy camper again. I don't think it's in my nature to stay depressed. It could be because I have Jupiter the jovial planet in my first house of self. Nothing keeps me down!

I notice that Saturn in the first is a downer! It could be Capricorn rising, which makes you responsible, but not the happiest person. My mom had Capricorn rising and she was depressed. My best friend has Capricorn rising and calls himself "sad." I don't see it myself, though he's not as animated I can get. My friend who was diagnosed as being manic depressive has Saturn in her first. Hmmm....I'll have to research this and see if it's a recurring pattern. My brother does not have Saturn in the first or Capricorn rising, but I know Saturn restricts his love nature by being conjunct Venus in his chart. Why is he bipolar, though? I'll have to look at that.

[Texana]

Hi Loramars,

Not knowing anything about astrology at all, I was thinking maybe it's a magnetic pull of two or more planets of equal strength pulling in opposing directions.

Your brother is probably still drinking because in self medicating, he beame addicted, and now that he has a mood stabilizer, he has not corrected the addiction.

The depression we all suffer from time to time from a situation...your boy friend elopes with the guy down the street, your sister won't speak to you because you wore pants instead of a dress to her wedding, you accidentally dyed your hair a horrid color, your family member passes on.....

....all those things are depressing and need attention, but their situational nature responds to talk therapy, proper rest and sunshine, exercise etc. or spending time with a good friend who understands you.

Other kinds of depression that are not precipitated by a situation, but by a hormone imbalance, or dopamine imbalance bring on a type of depression that cannot be predicted or 'reasoned" with.

OK, so I'm not an expert in any of this ....so no need to take my opinions as fact. I'm just willy nilly solving the world's problems.....

[Loramars]

I think I'm beginning to understand the difference and maybe I feel like Karen does when she says, "I'm just lucky." I feel fortunate coming from a bloodline of people who suffer from mental disorders (chemical imbalances) to never have even suffered PMS. I get what I like to call "the boohooeys," but I'm that sensitive anyway. It's not depressing really that the Mutual of Omaha commercial makes me cry.

I won't even let myself feel self pity for very long. It's just counterproductive. I'm a Capricorn. I prefer productivity! Turns out it's my Saving Grace to want to be efficient. Who knew?:p

[KarenESP]

Hi Loramar : I can tell you why brother drinks... it's the chronic depression of Bipolar I persons or schizo-affective persons.

I have taken medication since 1999 for bipolar disorder... I can tell you, there is no cure for the unrelenting depression.. which is the state 98 to 99% of the time. Antidepressents work on me for three days, then poof, nothing. None of the mood stabilizers have kept it at bay. Good night out drinking, OH YEA.. that'all clear it right up... for a couple of hours.

This depression is painful.. it's not just, oh ... I feel gloomy, oh.. Im a little blue... it causes physical pain. My face hurts.. the front of my face hurts.. my back aches.. these aches mysteriously disappear when the depression temporarily lifts (through small periods of mania or when trying a new drug, you know, for that three days).

The depression makes you feel like you are 80 years old. I have to get up, get my little one ready for day care/school, drop him off, get through the workday (pretending to be happy and fine) then pick him up... then usually, I can barely wait to get him to bed so I can flop in mine and go to sleep. You have no life. Just drag through the workday, in bed ASAP, then drag again the next day.

During the summer of 2002, I happened upon a mysterious herbal tea that actually gave me relief. I dropped thirty pounds and found that I had my life back... I could have energy for an evening activity, something... a little something on the weekend too.

Back in September, I started on Lamictal, a new drug similar to Tegretal, which stops seizures in children, works for BP also. This drug is supposed to block the next depressive cycle... and I think it is helping.

I understand what Texana said but would like to clarify... when you're bipolar.. situational depression abounds.. thats because, as a symptom of the very disorder, you don't make good decisions... (the way normal people see it)... so you're allows encountering more situational depression, over and over again.

I have discussed this w/my doc and I said..'this thing affects your whole life!' Loramar's brother is another example, look at his life.. do you think he wants to be that way? Of course not!!! I told my doctor that if I don't find something that works soon, Im afraid Im going to wind up on the streets, a homeless person. She didn't say, Oh no you won't... she seriously understood me... she knows many homeless people in and out of her office, all the time. (That's when family bring them in or they luck out and funding comes their way.)

But the crushing depression, that makes you wish your weren't born.. that makes you wish you didn't have a family so you could wack yourself because you can't see that you'll ever get out of it.. That you'll ever be financially independent or happy. I know it so well. Relief??? Drink. Thats why he drinks..

My spirit guides reminded me of something else for Loramar about her brother.. the complete demolition of one's self esteem. When he's straight, he is nothing but in a horrible pickle, wife pissed, family pissed, co workers think he 's a joke.. the self esteem goes lower and lower, becomes nothing.

The longer the illness goes on (ineffectively treated), the less you become.. the higher the mountain to climb to be normal, or decent, or even average (financially and socially). This is why bipolars commit suicide more often than any other diagnosis. The guides remind me, the compulsive drinking is a function of 1) chronic depression that seldom responds to medication in the worst of BP diagnosis, and 2) the complete and systematic demolition of the self esteem.

It's like, when you go out and drink, you do stupid things but aren't embarrassed until you straighten up the next day.. In the case of a BP person: your life, your entire existance is an embarrassement, the relief.. get high, get drunk.. instantly lift that crushing depression and be charming, witty, wonderful.. anything but what you really 'know' you've become.

I shut up now, give someone else a chance.

Thank you for listening. Sincerely, Karen

[KarenESP]

I almost forgot about this one..

In 2001, there was an article in the paper about this bipolar woman, actually she was a veterinarian.

She was an alcoholic for years, but managed to achieve sobriety.. after she became sober, her depression was unrelenting.. disabling... she had been hospitalized three times since becoming sober...

She started having compulsions about injecting herself with horse tranquilizer to kill herself... then she'd have to go to the hospital and she'd spend months there.

This was just after I found the tea. I actually wrote the author of her article (don't remember the lady's name.. but it was in the Baltimore Sun)... and told the author to pass a note along to this lady about the tea I had found.

The author called to thank me for the advise and assured me she'd pass the suggestion along.

The culmination of the article was that this lady was going to have an experimental devise placed in her head, that gave little shocks.. in attempt to escape her crushing depression... kind of like a pacemaker for the brain.

At that point during the article, I remember thinking to myself, "My God... all this suffering, why doesn't she just go back to drinking???!!"

I had almost forgot about that... I don't know what happened to her... some people who had this treatment had improvement, some had none.

I just think people need to understand that there certainly is not a pill to cure everything... Unipolar and bipolar depression are different.. bp depression responds to nearly nothing.

Just thought I'd share, Sincerely, Karen

[Loramars]

That sounds like my brother! He quit drinking for four years (until his first wife became pregnant with their last child by accident). He hardly ever smiled. When he's sober, he's real low key and takes things so seriously. He's depressed. When He's drinking, he's that improvisational stand-up comic! But it wears thin.

What tea is this that helps bp?

[Texana]

Karen,

My friend wants me to give you her email address so she can converse with you. Her mother just died and she is forcing herself to just stay with her family and not take on any new ventures or relatives or projects for a few weeks. She takes meds for diabetes, psoriasis on her joints and internal organs, and she has bipolar disorder. Her daughter has it too.

If I could get the tea for her maybe that would help. Hey I just saw one of those blue dots..........

[Loramars]

Is this something we are all supposed to see?

Oh! You guys have me hearing knocking now. I took a nap this afternoon and woke to the sound of tapping as if on a window pane. Now I know darn well that I could not have heard any tapping with my ears. I know this because I wear earplugs to bed so my neighbors noises won't jar me awake as they have on occasion. It's just a precaution.

I thought, I'm going to have to post this. If I hear news of death now after this rapping on my window, I'll have to let everyone know. I'm not aware of being clairaudio....until today???

Things that make you go, "hmmm..."

[KarenESP]

The tea is from Herbalife...

It's called Thermogenics Herbal Concentrate.

Im a distributor, but you can find one in your phone book. I sell the stuff wholesale, but it's not real cheap. (I don't like to sell the stuff 'cause even if you sell it retail, you don't make anything.. but I'll do it for you two if you know somebody who wants to try it.

A big bottle will last maybe 2 weeks, at best (if you drink enough of it to work) and it costs like, 29 bucks with shipping.

For the diabetes... there has been great success with the protein shakes. The high protein diet seemed to help me greatly too, with my BP in general. Thier shake is like, 29 bucks, lasts two weeks...

You can get the protien shake cheaper in health food stores - avoid Walmart brands, taste like crap.

I also lost 30 pounds in about six weeks when I started. I've kept most of it off, but I drink the tea all the time and do shakes as much as I can, at least for breakfast. Then I eat nuts for lunch, protein, then I eat a real dinner.

The tea was a lifesaver for me.. I take it like medicine.. I order it and pay for it because I consider it part of my prescription.

I can't figure out how it works. Of course I've tried to get cheaper stuff... just other herbal teas... Herbalife's tea has caffiene in it.. so I took regular tea and dropped caffiene in it.. from some gel like capsules I found at the grocery store... this was to see if I could beef up the caffiene of regular tea and get the same effect, much cheaper... But that little concoction gave me chest pains and made me wild.

I can't figure it out.. there's plenty of caffiene in coffee but I don't get the life saving effects of that tea. So I gave up and I just buy the stuff now. I order two at a time, so no chance I'll run out. I will truly spend my last damned dollar on the stuff because of it's effect on my brain.

I brought it in twice to show my doctor... she read the label.. its just a great big mix of a bunch of herbal teas and caffiene. She couldn't understand it, but boy did she see the difference in me when I started it, and the pounds (of depression) that poured off. Thats why she asked to see it the second time, because of the change in me, the improvement.

This is why, Texana, Im so amazed at all the things you do... all your activities.. they amaze me.. I know you struggle with grief related depression and here you are, doing this and that, going here and there... I can't do anything...but the tea has really helped tremendously, just getting through the work day, at least - which used to be so damned hard. And now, I can at least do something on the weekend besides sitting and staring into space.

Diabetics have had wonderful success with the Herbalife program.. but they'd have to do the shakes too, not just the tea.

So there 'ya go.. my tea story. I plastered it all over this site when I first started because I thought it might help some other people, even offered to sell it wholesale... I think I had two takers.. never heard from them again.

I think it might be something that works on 'some' people. Just before the tea, I had gotten so bad, I was grabbing furniture to walk.. feeling 95.. I went to the hospital, they tested me thoroughly, for cancer and everything, only to conclude it was the depression again, getting worse. Then, a few days later, somebody talked me into ordering the tea.. it was like an Angel said, Ok, show her the tea... I was so depressed it was unlike me to try, but I did that time and it gave me life again.

For me, heaven sent.

Sincerely, Karen:)

[Loramars]

The tea wouldn't be for me, because I have an unusual sensitivity to stimulants. If I were to drink 2 cups of coffee, consecutively, for example, I'd have to put a wet washcloth in my mouth to keep from chewing my tongue! Weird, I know. I have atopic dermatitis that finally went away after I gave up caffeine. Stimulants make my skin break out in a rash, too!

I'll keep it in mind for others who might be interested, though.

It's great that you found something that works for you, Karen.

[Texana]

Karen,

It might be good for my friend too, but she has so many weird things, who knows. Tea does have caffeine, but I drink one cup of coffee in the morning and that's about it. Caffeine is wonderful for helping with migraines. I told everyone about getting rid of migraines by getting braces on my teeth. I had prayed for a cure for years...so I know what you mean about something being the answer to your dream of a cure.

I'm a naturally "up" person and had no problems with depression until my first child went off to college, then became ill, then Austin died. When David went off to school, i started gaining weight for the first time in my life, but before that i had no energy at all. Just laid on the couch every day after work until I had to drive someone to the tennis court or a boy scout meeting. Just wheezed on the couch and did nothing.

After David's illness, I saw the other people in my NAMI class were the same way. One day one couple came in and they were Happy for the first time because they took a weekend to themselves and had a great time. So the next week I got a personal trainer for 5 sessions. I started feeling so much better and had energy at the end of the day!

So now it's six years later and I still have the personal trainer...he's a friend now. I pay for training like I used to pay for therapy. It really pulled me through when Austin was killed, and my trainer is psychic but will not readily admit it. He will in Maui. He was the one who organized the trip. We think we must be distant cousins....That's the kind of friendship we have.

I exercise on my own and feel good and meet with him on Friday. I've been goofing off lately, but am getting back into it. It changed my life and energy.

[KarenESP]

Believe me, I wasn't thinking either of YOU needed the tea, ha ha... I thought you knew people who were drowning in depression, thats who I thought you meant.

You two seem to be the opposite of those who need the tea, har har.

Sincerely, Karen

[Texana]

I will admit, I ran out of diet Coke today and I have been drinking green tea, English breakfast tea, Hibiscus Tea, Lemon Zinger.....You got me thinking anyway....Losing 30 pounds would be a good thing.

If my friend with bi polar disorder could benefit, that would be great.

I've been watching a show on the discomvery Health Channel about a Canadian health product called E M Power+ created from Pig supplements for stabilization of Bi Polar Disorder....Interesting. It's like 120X the dosage of Magnesium, Zinc and several other minerals...toxic amounts for some....

[KarenESP]

Toxic amounts!!! ****! The medications have dangerous side effects and now what, natural treatments in toxic doses!!! Maybe I'll just go drink.. ha ha ha!
Just kidding, although I know, not really funny. ):

Well, Texana... I had weight gain that was from chronic depression, when that lifted, through the tea and protein shakes, I dropped all that weight.

I don't think you have the same thing, especially with the way you get around (don't think that came out quite right, ha ha)... but if you want to try it, your welcome too.

Other chirpy, perky people tried it and didn't loose anything.. Anyone who has a problem with serious or chronic depression that hasn't responded well to antidepressents.. they should DEFINATELY give the tea a try... at that point, what do you have to loose... at least it's not a toxic dose of anything!

Here's my number if you want to call for to order the tea...
410-751-9893
That probably wasn't such a good idea to post..

Oh well, this thread is so long, probably very few people will actually read all the way down here, right?

:D